The Conversations
"Miss, check please," said Bob.
Bob and Mark were at the end of another interesting dinner during which they discussed a book that Mark had given Bob for the past holiday, as well as the status of the woke, and anti-woke movements.
The friends had altered their pattern for this meeting, choosing a different restaurant than in the past. The change was a result of a business engagement that Mark had not anticipated, so that rather than change the date of their dinner, they chose a place closer to both Bob's residence and the site of Mark's meeting.
"I read that book you sent me," began Bob, as they settled into their chairs after placing their orders. "If you recall, it was broken into ten parts, the introduction, then nine sections detailing a specific woman's battle for justice."
"Yes," said Mark. "While it was a bit ago that I read it, I remember the format."
The book the men were referring to was Lady Justice, by Dahlia Lithwick, in which Lithwick reviewed the efforts by women who had worked, often in obscurity, through legal means to ensure equal justice for all.
"It is certainly interesting to realize how important those women were, and probably still are, yet so often overlooked by the media," said Bob. "I know you have evolved to a belief that we should hand over the reins of power to women, so to speak. After reading this book, I can see your point, although, at this time in history, I would be content for women to band together at the ballot box and only vote for candidates that allow women to control their reproductive lives, and for families and their doctors to decide how, when and why to use abortion services as part of their health profile."
"I think it is hard not to believe," replied Mark, "that if men were able to bear children, they would make damn sure their rights were protected, in fact, more likely, abortion would have already been recast as in terms that didn't even mention the existence of a fetus. If men had babies, we also wouldn't have one of the worst maternal death rates of the western, modern nations. Men's lives would be far more protected, and their health in carrying the future of our country far more protected and guarded."
"But this book was about far more than abortion rights," continued Mark. "From civil rights to gender equality to voting rights, the contributions of the women profiled by Lithwick are amazing. I know we fell victim to an assumption that Hillary would win in 2016, and it is clear by how the previous administration operated, that her victory would have eliminated all kinds of angst that is prevalent today, but perhaps as soon as 2028, a women might be in the White House so that the pendulum which has drifted towards treating women as second class citizens, and emboldened the white nationalists movement, will be squashed."
As Mark finished speaking, their meal arrived. After a short interval in which they focused on eating, and to update each other on family events, Bob toggled the discussion back to woke and anti-woke.
"I know politicians and political pundits are always floating ideas and concepts that will distinguish themselves from the pack, and in the process gain them power and influence, but it continues to amaze me how basing a political agenda on denying historical facts can be anything but short sighted. Obviously, there is an ongoing strategy of presenting history in a way that upholds the idea of American exceptionalism and some sort of attachment to morality and God, I mean education has always been a force to mold children to reflect the status quo and nationalism. But why would we want our future citizens and leaders not be able to hold two thoughts in their head at once, that the founders fashioned amazing documents as guidelines to a more free country, while still existing in a time when only privileged white men voted, and women were still considered an extension of their husband, at best, not to mention the fact that most of the signers of the "all men are created equal" declaration owned slaves?"
Mark smiled.
"Aren't you answering your own question, Bob? Keeping the masses less informed, less literate in the facts, allows our leaders to manipulate them, to gaslight them, to use a popular phrase. Why do you think that all tyrants and despots make it a point to attack, even imprison the intelligentsia. What strikes me is that so many of the populist leaders are the definition of elite, Ivy League educated, and or inheritors of great wealth, yet they are able to convince enough voters that they care a whit about them, all the while passing laws which hold them less accountable while increasing their economic and political advantages."
"Teaching critical thinking should be the foundation of education, once the basics are covered. As with all movements, there is certainly a grain of truth that some educators and educational settings may, at times, go too far by forgetting the positive, throwing the baby out with the bathwater. When students boo a speaker at a university because he or she espouses different beliefs, they are as guilty of close mindedness as those who would never allow a speaker with a controversial topic to lecture in the first place. If we are to accept that for those against abortion, we should recommend they not have one, then it is also true that for those who disagree with a speaker's opinions, should not attend, or, at least engage in back and forth questions and answers."
"But what about hate speech?" asked Bob.
"A good speaker can make their point without resorting to inciting violence or expressing their beliefs with words laden with hate," responded Mark. "Commenting on the problems we have at our southern border with facts related to the horrible conditions of shelters on both sides of the border, or facts related to the cost of maintaining a secure border, and perhaps even with facts about the increase of crime in border towns, can be communicated without saying that all Mexicans are rapists and murderers. A more serious debate would touch on why so many people from Mexico and Central America and points beyond are travelling to America. Instead of demonizing them, discussion that equate today's immigrants, their problems and obstacles, with those who came to America in the early 20th century, the ancestors of some who are the most aggressive in their rhetoric, might lead to rational answers."
"I hear you," said Bob, "but fear is a pretty powerful tool for someone who prefers blame over solutions. Where difficult problems can require multi-leveled answers, as well as compromises from each side, the everyday citizen who is struggling to put food on the table, is worried about affording their children's education and their own retirement, often seek the quick fix, and telling them that all their problems will be solved if only we close our borders and make drag shows illegal, provides that result."
"I mean," continued Bob, "there are literally millions of Americans who support more guns in schools, even in the hands of teachers who they think are indoctrinating their kids, but are outraged at the idea of someone in drag reading to their kid. As if Bugs Bunny never wore a dress, or Tony Curtis in 'Some Like it Hot', or Tom Hanks in the sitcom 'Bosom Buddies' or every single Shakespearean actor for hundreds of years who had to dress as a woman because women were not allowed to act."
"What I want to know is, when did white men become such babies"? asked Bob. "For pretty much all of history, that demographic has been handed everything, just by virtue of birth. Women couldn't even vote for the first 150 years or so of our country's existence, and there were major obstacles for black folks, especially in the south, for another 40 years after that. But now, a little affirmative action, a little recognition that white men don't have the market cornered on smarts or ambition or business acumen, and many have their knickers in a twist about how they are being replaced, or held back. The fact that white men make up a far higher percentage in relation to overall population in the area of Senators, Governors, CEO's, millionaires, etc, etc, and that the overall unemployment rate for white men is still lower than any other demographic tells you all you need to know. Babies!"
"Being a white man, I feel just as disappointed in my fellow men," continued Bob, "as I am in the baby boomers of which I include myself. We were presented the world on a silver platter, and, are throwing it away for material possessions, and transitory ones at that."
"To be honest, I have encountered some examples of racial discrimination in my business dealings," replied Mark. "Well, perhaps discrimination is too harsh, but certainly I felt that some decisions were made to favor my competition, not because their proposal was superior, but because a quota needed to be maintained. Of course, I can also acknowledge that none of those situations put me out of business, I am still successful, while some of those who were given advantage, had nothing else to fall back on. So, it is a fine line we need to walk, to make sure that in the name of equal access, we don't shortchange the public through faulty workmanship or products. But to completely dismiss the facts that generational wealth has disproportionately harmed minorities denies reality. You can argue about how to provide for equal access but not that it shouldn't be provided."
Bob nodded his head as Mark finished this remark, partly in agreement, partly out of respect for Mark, in that Bob knew that lesser men than Mark use such an acknowledgement to justify their rants about reverse discrimination, while Mark was adult enough, man enough you might say, to understand why, and to accept this sacrifice towards a more equitable world.
"That sounds pretty woke of you," said Bob with a big smile.
Both men laughed.
"I always thought that helping others was the Christian thing to do," said Mark, at which both men laughed again.
"You are referring to the belief that being woke, recognizing that there is inequality, and working to bridge the gap between those who have opportunity and those who are denied it, is based on the teachings of Jesus," said Bob.
"Kind of makes the anti-woke movement, not only unchristian, but not very patriotic, if you assume that patriotism is about striving to accomplish the goal of "all men are created equal."
"Even more so, reminds me of the fundamentalists in the Muslim religion who promote homophobic notions, and aren't the most female friendly of groups. Seems odd that the very people that some Americans consider religious zealots and freedom despising, hold similar beliefs about the LGBTQ community as those they dislike, and are supportive of laws that strip women of equal rights. I guess it is hard to look in a mirror, especially when that reflection is more than skin deep."
"Still, as I have said before, I don't see the long term benefits of such a strategy," concluded Bob. "There are very few families who don't have a gay member, and women make up more than 50% of the population, so how is continually telling both groups they are less equal, and passing laws that institutionalize that bias, good for winning a majority of voters?"
"I see your point, despite my reaction earlier," said Mark. "There is a simple strength in teaching prejudice and hate, but I agree that in the long run, those who encourage love and compassion win out. Love can and should be shared with all, and, while hate usually focuses on those somebody labels the 'others', that label that can be directed at any subset of people, perhaps, someday, even those who look like you. When the message of love penetrates enough people for them to realize no one is immune to being hated, then all battles against hate are battles for everyone."
"Most likely everyone has heard that 'no one is free until everyone is free'," began Bob, "but it would surprise me if even 5% of the people who know the quote know who coined it."
https://www.jacksonfreepress.com/news/2011/apr/15/fannie-lou-hamer/
Having settled their bill, the men rose to leave the table. They walked through the restaurant together, still chatting, but about less serious topics. Outside, they realized they were parked in opposite directions of the entrance.
"I saw a sign on a neighbor's yard recently," began Bob, "that said something like 'evil prevails when the good do nothing'. I am not sure what that person is referring to as evil, but considering that yard was replete with signs promoting the former president, and the GOP candidate for governor who claimed that as governor he could decide what votes to count, I imagine that person believes that 'wokeness' is ruining America, and consequently, that good people need to speak out. Now, I don't personally know this neighbor, and perhaps that reflects poorly on me for not reaching out. But I will assume he is a good man, loves his family, goes to church, loves America. How do we get through to good people like that who have been misled by rhetoric that dehumanizes other people, other Americans, to the point that they truly believe that it is right to discriminate against them, to deny them the promise of freedom and the pursuit of happiness?"
Mark did not answer at first. Partly because he knew some form of answer might not be communicable in a parking lot. But also because he knew there was no conclusive answer because American freedom, being as complex and even contradictory as it was, meant that one man's good was another man's evil, and vice-a-versa, and that it was precisely that contradiction that made true freedom so difficult and elusive.
"I don't know the answer to that question, can't really imagine that there is one. There will always be people with opinions that differ from what you or I think makes sense, what you or I think is right or moral. When more people think that particular version of good and evil is less appropriate than what we think, perhaps that is all we can hope for. And, more importantly, that the minority opinion, no matter how vile we consider it, does not become the rule of the day. If we are to believe that our species is evolving for the better, spiritually, then we have to hope that the majority will truly realize that no one is free until all are free, and that will become the standard for behavior, despite the fact that there will continue to be those that have not reached that level of understanding."
With that, the friends shook hands and turned to walk to their waiting cars.
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This is the fourth installment of The Conversations. To read (or review) and of the first three, I have provided links below.
https://wurdsfromtheburbs.blogspot.com/2023/02/the-conversations-part-3.html
https://wurdsfromtheburbs.blogspot.com/2023/01/the-conversations-part-2.html
https://wurdsfromtheburbs.blogspot.com/2023/01/the-conversations-part-1.html
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